How to launch a fintech in less than 6 months

In this Tech Story podcast episode, host Charles Brecque chats with Daniel Yubi, founder of Payable, a digital treasury management platform. Yubi shares his unique journey from a lawyer to a product manager, eventually leading him to create Payable. He discusses the challenges and rewards of being a first-time founder, emphasising the importance of team-building and investing in talent. Yubi also highlights the significance of having a strong vision to guide the company and persuade others to believe in it. The conversation explores the competitive fintech landscape, with Yubi providing insights on acquiring capital, managing cash flow, and staying focused on growth and customer acquisition. In addition, the discussion touches on the changing payment environment and the increasing need for automated tracking of funds.

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Charles Brecque: Welcome to the Tech Story podcast. A place where we interview founders, successful entrepreneurs, to talk about all things tech and growth. Today I'm very excited to welcome this founder, he's a friend, he's a successful business founder, business owner, founder of Payable. A company which has an amazing API and software platform that allows teams to reconcile payments and make bank transfers. Daniel, thank you for joining us today. Would you like to share a bit of background about yourself and Payable?

Daniel Yubi: Thank you so much, Charles, I'm very excited to be here. Actually, this is my first time ever doing an in-person podcast so I'm very excited to be doing these with you, Charles. And, yes, just thank you so much for having me here.

Charles Brecque: My pleasure. So Daniel, you're from Mexico, you're now in London and the founder of a tech company. What's the story, how did this all happen?

Daniel Yubi: Yes, I would love it if we would have done this podcast in Spanish, that would have been great and so much fun. So I'm from a small city called Cancun, so I saw a lot of people getting drunk during spring break. And I was that guy, always nerdy in the laptop. I did have some fun, don't get me wrong. But yes, I was that guy that I always loved how to do-, a little bit of, like, photoshop, illustration and then I ended up being a product manager. My first-, well actually before that I was a lawyer I'm happy to share. I used to divorce people which is a different story and one I'll have to share more about. But yes, I, I, I was a lawyer. I realised reading paper was not my thing. I would just prefer to always be on a laptop trying to build new things. And I did this thing called hackathon. At the time I didn't know what a hackathon was, this is called StartupBus. So it's 40 people in a bus driving to a location and then other buses are also going to this location so we can present a product. At the time I didn't know what a product manager was, what a programmer was. A friend said to me, 'You hate your job, just do this thing and just go, right.' So I was in Mexico City with 40 people. There was a bus from New York City, from San Francisco, from LA, from Chicago, all of those were going to meet in Techstars, Denver. Really exciting. So 40 people in a bus with a very bad toilet, I'm not going to lie, there was Wi-Fi. We had to just go and think of an idea, just programme it, market it, get traction in three day. I mean, while we're driving and then in three days we'll present it to Techstars.

Very excited that we got to second place, our great idea was a polling app. How can you bring your friends so they can make decisions for you? I all myself an efficient person but sometimes maybe I'm just lazy. So I just want to say if I want to eat a burrito or a taco, you know, maybe I can ring my friends and they can tell me, 'Oh, do not get this, get that.' The whole idea was a business model for this was maybe we can bring Nike so they can put their new type of shoe on a model and they can choose any type of model they want to. It was so much fun, it was great. We presented to Techstars, we got second place. And I said this is for me. So I ended up, you know, falling in love with product management. I still didn't know what product management was at the time. And I applied for this job a Clip. Clip is like SumUp, like, a more POS. So how can companies accept card payments or actually small taco shops. It was super cool. It was amazing, it was, like, imagine how do you to come as a taco place-, a taco shop, a taco guy in the street of Mexico City so they can start accepting cards, right. So they'd increase their revenue. Adolfo and Vilash the founders of PayClip, they believe in me so I joined as a product manager, I was the first product manager in the Mexico office. The rest of the team was in Menlo Park. So I had access to how do you build products from a San Francisco Menlo Park perspective. And I was, like, this thing called fintech is so amazing. That was, like, the beginning of my journey, how I ended up starting into product and fintech.

Charles Brecque: Great and so, now you've founded Payable, how did you get there and what does Payable do?

Daniel Yubi: Yes, and so before starting Payable I was working at a company called checkout.com. When you go into checkout.com or Stripe or you don't get more geek in Fintech than I did. This is literally card processing, so how can a company accept payments, how to score VIAPIs. And one of the things I realised is accepting payments is easy,but understanding where your cash and money is is pretty hard. As more companies are accepting different payment methods, some use cards, some use open banking, some just bank transfers, other use-, really weird things are happening in Europe, there's a very strong fragmentation in the payments world. All of this settlements are going to multiple bank accounts, the finance team has to wake up to go into these bank accounts and make sure they're getting paid at the right time. Their treasury team or the finance team wants to make sure they understand the working capital, so they can, you know, do payroll and just have a good cash flow. And all of this happens, even though we're in 2023, through spreadsheets. I guess, the reason why is because, you know, a lot of the fintech innovation and banking innovation has been for the consumer. You have the revolutes of the word, the of the world. They created this new banking experience which is amazing for users. Then, you know, you have the , the as a service product that says, 'Hey, we're going to have in build everything in-house, how can somebody just have a plug and play to have a banking license?' But as you go higher into these enterprise companies, they still have to use Barclays, Lloyds, JP Morgan and now that Silicon Valley Bank is not around you don't want to have only one bank account. You want to have multiple bank accounts.

So once I have a fragmentation of multiple banks and then the other side you have multiple ways to get paid, so how do you bring it together and it's connected to something which is your context, which is your, you know, users, suppliers, sellers whatever your storing data is. Was bring it together so you understand your cash flow, your, you know, money in just different places. So you don't have to be using a bunch of spreadsheets.

Charles Brecque: That sounds really fascinating, you mentioned Silicon Valley Bank and I remember when it all happened you did a great explain the video. Did it-, did you product help in anyway navigate the crisis? Did you know anyone who was affected and could they have maybe, you know, anticipated or done something differently if they were using Payable?

Daniel Yubi: Yes, so. Well many things they are right. I think one of the things is what the US regulation allows these banks to do, which is they only store-, many people don't know this. But they allow to only store 10% or your money. So anything else that is not that 10%, that 90% can be used for lending purposes. So, your money's not really there. You know, you think your money's stored but it's actually not stored it's been used for making, you know, the US or the world more productive. So they also these, you know, way for you to protect the funds which is, like, 250K in protection. But now what companies are really trying to do is to have multiple bank accounts. So when that happened with Silicon Valley Bank, people reach out to us and say, 'Hey, we need to get an account. Do you know anybody? Lloyds or Barclays. Do you know anybody? JP Morgan.' And because we have those relationships because that's our job, our job is to offer multi-bank connectivity, we know the people in these banks. So now we see people want to do is say, 'Okay, if I want a million.' This is a very simplified example, but you have a million and I know I'm only protected for 250K, how can I have many banks or multiple banks so I can have all my money protected. But it also means though operationally is really hard. Because how do you understand is, who you are paying, if you have money everywhere. Right. So I think-, I think companies should have known that it's not good to have all your money or all your eggs in one basket. This could have been prevented. But I think also we were just in a very safe space, you know, as an ecosystem. But yes, that's the main way how Payable helps. You know, how can we allow you to open an account faster, how ca n we give you to the right level of contact so you can talk to the right bank partner. And then, how do you then use Payable so you can track all your cash and as well as automatic bank transfers.

Charles Brecque: Yes, well I think we all know what the lesson here is, you know, use Payable.

Daniel Yubi: Please do.

Charles Brecque: Great and obviously, you know, first time founder. What do you wish you had known before starting Payable?

Daniel Yubi: That, that, that is just a new podcast. That could be a whole thing. As a first time founder you, you, you don't realise how hard it is to build a company. How hard it is to have this core star problem. So one of the things that we mind we keep talking about this is can the founder hire the most important thing as a team, can the founder hire, can the founder build, can the founder sell, can the founder scale? And that is the trajectory of the journey of a founder, right. So every stage comes through learnings and, you know, I went through the process of, you know, hiring the first person-, I'm very excited actually today, today's Nick's anniversary as a first engineer that believed in us and joined us. It's so interesting because Raz our CTO was still on his notice period working with us but, but yes. Like, Nick was officially the first one to join us, like, legally or contractually. So yes, how do you feel hiring the first person, you know, when you have nothing, no customers, no tech, no nothing. How do you sell that vision so they can believe in something they want to build and mostly when-, it's a new category. It's not that I'm saying, 'Hey, we'll build Salesforce but cheaper and faster.' It's, 'Hey, we see people using spreadsheets, why? There should be a better way, right?' Hiring is one thing. Then is building your team and company is very different than having a strong velocity team in a company you're working at, right. So I would say when I was at checkout.com the marketplace team was really strong and fast but when I see what we can do now it is way faster. We ave no limits, right. We-, your limit is ability for you to believe in something you can actually go and do. But for that you need to believe that.

And as a founder you need to believe that, there's a lot of imposter syndrome, there's a lot of doubt. You sometimes ask yourself, like, why are people really with me? Is this a really massive opportunity. So yes, this is-, I'm wondering if you can guide me into what you want me to focus more because it's been a massive learning on the whole journey of being a first time founder from how to do the first sales, like, the whole process.

Charles Brecque: Yes. I can-, I can definitely relate to, you know, hiring your first employee, it's, it's-, they're, they're effectively taking a bet on you and it doesn't always work but yes, it's, it's-, hiring is tough.

Daniel Yubi: Hiring is really hard.

Charles Brecque: It never gets easy.

Daniel Yubi: And we hired before the, you know, a lot of people were let go in the last six or seven months and we hired all these people before that. So it's even harder, right, we were hiring at the cusp of everybody wanting to steal the best talent and the current team is, like it's an amazing team. And yes, it's required some level of understanding. At the beginning I remember we went to hire someone and I felt it was expensive and I didn't, you know, I didn't move forward. I realise though opportunity cost of not hiring that person, like, you say, 'Yes, it's 10k more expensive but the opportunity costs of not having that person the next three, five months because you found someone that is great is just crazy.' And I remember I was talking with my CTO and Raz said to me, 'Hey, we should move forward. This person can move the needle.' I was like, 'Oh yes, but, you know, he's, like, way above, you know, market rays so.' I was like, 'No, no, no.' But then you realise, if you find somebody great that can join and skill the company and also skill the company, go for it. Because you shouldn't be hiring the next two or three months, you're hiring for the next year, year and a half, right. And then ideally all of them can go for the next four or five years. So, yes.

Charles Brecque: I think great pieces of advice, invest in talent and, I guess, retain talent. That that's the next challenge. Obviously lots of lessons learnt, but what's been your favourite moment so far?

Daniel Yubi: It's really hard to say a favourite moment, I think it's been-, I think it's just been so many. Right, the first hire was amazing. The first time we signed a customer was amazing. We went to Lisbon and seeing the team, you know, believing in what we're doing, how we can be better. So, I think, as a-, as a founder sometimes-, and maybe this is wrong but, we-, or I have a paternalistic view of the world right. I believe in a particular mental model that I want to mould my team in the way I think. So because I believe is the best way. That doesn't mean it's the right one, of course I get challenged and I change my opinion. But I also have an idea, like, I think this is what we're lacking here. And when the team comes up from within something that you had in mind, that you just-, you knew it was wrong and then suddenly they are saying, 'Guys, I think we should-, we should do better in XYZ.' You say, 'Yes.' Right because the hardest thing is, about our job is to repeat many things multiple times so people get it, right. We raise money which requires some level of a loan of reputation of believing something great. And every month we are using that money to get to that opportunity and that is just oxygen that we need to get to the next milestone. And if we run out of money, we run out of that opportunity to get to that milestone. And we get it, but not everybody in the company will get it. So if, certainly you have an opportunity to attain, to grab that moment where the company actually get it so they can move faster is amazing. And we got it and then of course, you know, people get, of course, think of it again, you have to go again and repeat it.

But yes, it's hard to choose a favourite moment. It's-, I've been-, I've been blessed by the team that we hire and the team that, like, the investors that I have, everybody that's been supporting. I remember when we signed the term sheet, I was like, 'Oh my god.' And then I realised, 'Oh my god.' We have to now deliver right. So no, there's been so many favourite moments. I think, my favourite moment I think, if I had to choose one, is to making the jump of starting something. I think many people say they want to do something but very few do. So we are the ones who do and now we have to go and try to get it to the other side and I think that was just my favourite moment to say, 'Hey, let's take the leap of faith.' And then Raz joined, then Nick joined, Rosalee, then the rest of the team joined and now we're trying to get through the other side.

Charles Brecque: I, I can definitely relate to, you know, first customer, first hire. The adrenaline that you get from that is-,

Daniel Yubi: That's amazing.

Charles Brecque: You don't get it from anywhere else. You know, obviously, you've been around is it two years?

Daniel Yubi: Yes, well-,

Charles Brecque: Two, three?

Daniel Yubi: No actually so it's, it's tough. We, we incorporated the company a year ago, then money was wired in April a year ago. So I was say literally a year, I think one of the things that is really hard in the UK for anyone to think about starting a company in the UK that there is this thing called three months notice period. Which, of course, you are aware, which is other people we hired join three, four months later so the team was assembled some of it in August, then September and then half of the front end team joined in January. Which is insane. So, so it's been a year of the moment we raised funds but it's been six months or so where we said, 'Okay, we have an idea. We have a very simple MBP and now we have, you know, a team, we can go and we can run right.' I hate that delay, you know, of course I wanted to just have, like, this and then you go, but yes. So it's a been a year I will say.

Charles Brecque: And, and team of fifteen?

Daniel Yubi: Yes. We are fifteen. We're very excited about Karina. She's going to be helping us one day doing all these fun bits. She's leading product marketing so she is-, she was a marketing leader at. She's joining in May and, but yes, that will be sixteen.

Charles Brecque: Wow, I mean, congrats because it took us three years to get to sixteen. So, yes, I'm just in awe at how quickly you managed to, to build this and, yes, six months I'm in shock. But great.

Daniel Yubi: Yes, I think it's really interesting. I think if I-, you know, I, I-, the way we thought about the company is a bunch of competitors appear around the same time. So we had to make a decision to say if we want to win this we need to move fast and hire fast and try to get there fast. I don't think treasury and financial operations is winning takes all compared to or Open banking I would say, but definitely there is a reason why we had to took this path. I think by, you know, starting another company I definitely would have not done something in such a hot space, then I would have taken a different approach to say very small, very focused deliberate and then as you're growing then you are adding more people and, so. But it was a different approach because of the nature of the market and where we were. And the, I guess, the competition that appeared in the last couple of months.

Charles Brecque: Yes, I mean, we've taken the approach of going, I mean, maybe slowly and less capital but milestone by milestone and, you know, sometimes if you do get all the capital upfront that it, it means that you can just focus on hitting the milestones. Whereas, I do feel like sometimes if you aren't just raising to get to the next step then ultimately raising can become a bit of a distraction, but there are pros and cons with everything. And there's no one way to build a business.

Daniel Yubi: Yes. It's hard, look, I went through a process of fundraising and I don't like it. I love my investors, I love everybody I met. It's just fundraising is such a-, it just takes a lot of your time and you're spending time not building, not talking to customers, not doing the, the things that really matter. So definitely I agree, the more you raise, the more you need invest or allocate money. But then also, the sooner you have to go raise more money, which is always annoying.

Charles Brecque: Absolutely, and, you know, what, what's the plan-, if you've achieved so much in six months, I mean, where will you be next year and three years, five years, what's the goal?

Daniel Yubi: Yes, now we're really focused on, on growth and customer acquisition. We have two products we're about to have to give more value to our customers. What I mean is, you know, we can-, we can understand what money goes into the bank account and we can reconcile those transactions and we can then instruct the bank to move money for whatever reasons. That gives us this unique opportunity to really offer cash management, treasury. You know, 'Hey, I want to forecast how much money's going to leave my account.' So from a proper perspective we want to really double down on, you know, how involved these companies are getting out of Silicon Valley Bank going into all these accounts to really manage their money better. All our customers are now in Europe. We have one in the UK, want to double down in the UK and go stronger to, to Europe, we have also as well in the Nordics. Where we are going to be in the three, four years, I don't know, you know, I'm from Mexico so there's a question of should we go to the US because of massive market or should we go to or Mexico. There's pros and cons. In the US people pay more. I saw a very interesting article the other day that from a Fintech perspective the US is the best companies enjoy paying for fintech products. Definitely in Mexico, not a lot of people will pay but it's interesting as well because in Mexico there's no efficiency.So if you are starting a company in the UK or in the US, you say, hey you are efficient to 40, 50% because you can have a spreadsheet, you can have something. And then the delta could be, like, 60 whatever or what we offer from Payable.

If you go to countries, there's nothing. Like, it's completely empty space. There's nothing and there are many business. So of course a person comes, we don't know. There's some competitors in, in Mexico but a lot in the US or some in the US. But that's, you know, one of the questions that we will think about in the next year. I think our main focus right now is build product, increase market, market expansion in UK and Europe.

Charles Brecque: So, I guess, yes, key takeaway is global domination. I, I-, for us it's similar. We, we sometimes do get pulled into directions from customers that are all over the world finding us through our website. And it's really hard to, to say no. But obviously we are thinking about how can we get there sooner and obviously it requires some tweaks to our product and everything's been roadmapped and I'm confident that later this year we, we should be able to expand. But, I guess, yes, the question is how do you expand in a strategic way which doesn't kill your business?

Daniel Yubi: Yes, so it's, yes, it's tough, right. If you want you follow where the customers are, you want to follow the money but then you also want to think about, okay if I do this company and have all this money will I have these market that make sense for the business. And sometimes you know, sometimes you don't know, it's really hard to predict that but that's what we're all trying to do.

Charles Brecque: Great. And as you're, like, growing a business and as a founder, I imagine you've come across quite a few contracts and various legal documents, I guess, for first time founders listening to the show, what, sort of, contracts can you share and what tips and advice can you give about them?

Daniel Yubi: Yes, so, i-, even though I come from a law background I, of course, have no idea of anything in terms of contract when I moved to the UK. Since so many-, so from the very beginning right, if you are fundraising, you will get a term sheet, even though it's not a contract per say but it's still al legal document that we need to go and review. I remember reviewing that and I was, like, 'I have no idea what's happening here, right.' Then-, and it's interesting what we're saying, it's, like, literally every key mouse, sort of, a first time founder that makes somebody get joy, will come with a contract. Meaning first time sheet, okay, how does is that going to work? First hire, oh he's super excited, okay. How would you-, you know, what, what should we add in here? How, how friendly, not friendly should that be right? So that's one, another one that we had to go through the process of. You know, what could be good contract for an employment contract that is not-, that is employer friendly but also protects the business in, in, in some way. Then first customer, right. You want-, and there-, you know, everything's-, depends on where you're talking, right. So you want to remove friction to as fast as possible. So you have a POC pilot agreement contract and then you have a proper merchant service agreement, how do you remove everything so they can go live as fast as possible? And that's just-, that's what I mean. Every key moment that makes somebody either happy and hopefully not a lawsuit right, but it's, like, makes you happy, should come with a liberal contract so both of those-, yes, those are the main ones. First customer, first hire, how you raise money, they all came with a contract.

Charles Brecque: Great. Great. And with those contracts, I mean, do you use software? Do you send out paper? I mean, how, how do you do them?

Daniel Yubi: It depends on many contracts, like, it depends a lot, so I will say that the process we have right now is very simple just because of the stage we are at at the moment. I wouldn't really of contracts and most of the contracts we use we have a template. The first contracts and how we got them, we work with a law firm who were the ones who helped me on the term sheet, investment side of things. They had a template for the employment agreement so that, they send that over to us. We put it on Docusign and then we send it over to, you know, let's say, whoever we want to hire. On the customer side is the same, we got a pilot agreement, a very simple one and we send it over to, to the customer. I think the, the way we also work is we had a lot of NDAs, so it was, like, okay you want to see value of Payable, send us all your data and we can show back how this works and then the champ in the company can go and present that to the CFO, whoever the people find and say, 'Look, they can help us.' As I said, normally in that cases we just wait for them to send the NDA so they can feel more comfortable that we're following their lead. But it's really simple, just a template that we go from somewhere, Docusign sign, send it over and that's it. I would say that we see, yes, like, a contract I will say-, I on't know, like, we're not hiring as much now because we are trying to keep cash flow, or cash really low key but yes. I would say last year we were seeing way more contracts than we're seeing this year.

Charles Brecque: And, and is that just the market conditions that have led to less contracts?

Daniel Yubi: Yes, so I would just-, I would just say this is our stratedgy at the moment, which his not to hire and not to hire a lot, just to keep money down and most of the contracts now we see is the ones we're sending to our customers on the side of things. So yes, we're just trying to double down. And also because we have a very standardised process we will reuse them templates. So it's not always seeing new contracts if that makes sense, yes.

Charles Brecque: Great. And you talked quite a bit about contracts, lets say you receive a contract to sign today, what would impress you?

Daniel Yubi: Well, if it's an amazing deal that I'm about to close with a lot of money they're going to pay us, I think, though, for me a contract that is great is the one that is able to cover all aspects but is simple to understand. I think what is hard, of course, is lawyers where you make it really hard to really follow around. Or at the top of the contract they mention something and then down the line in the contract section is not clear what actually means. I don't even know what I was reviewing my contract for the lease, for the rent. The way, I remember the cost, but the way they write a lease for you to get out, the exit clause, it doesn't say, 'Hey Daniel, your exit clause is in six month.' They use a really particular way of writing. It's, like, can I leave in six months or does it-, I don't know, it's not clear. So I think what is a good contract, it's the one that is able to protect both parties, sometimes somebody will have a stronger negotiation side, which is completely fair depending on who you're sitting, which, you know, seat of the table. But is easy to understand. I think that would make me a very-, I would be impressed about a contract that can be done that way.

Charles Brecque: You know what, it sounds like you've described Legislate. And I'm not just saying it because obviously I'm the founder of Legislate but also that, you know, contracts are texts, PDF, etc. but that doesn't mean that it just has to be a PDF, and we always try to present the contracts as key questions and answers. What are the key terms? So that when you are looking at the PDF it's easier, easier to digest. If you want to see who the parties are, you can see that visually. And there's a lot more that we want to do so that when you can visualise your contracts, it makes it easier to understand the text and then it also then means that you can actually simplify the text because you actually understand what it's all about. But, but yes. I think-, I think simplifying contracts is, is really important.

Daniel Yubi: Yes, for sure.

Charles Brecque: And, and it doesn't just mean using simple languages, it also just means using standard terms. We're, we're big believers in standardised contracts because if everything is standard, you know, there's nothing to negotiate. So, I guess, that, that's our philosophy at Legislate. And obviously, tech founder also a YouTuber, what-, how have you found-, you know, are there any lessons from YouTube that have, sort of, carried over to Payable?

Daniel Yubi: Yes, well, I think every company now is a media company if you do it right, so that's why we're very excited that we're doing this podcast. Media is amazing, you know, media is the way for you to be in people's minds. People are busy, even our finance treasury the stakeholders were focusing, they don't have time. They want to be entertained and for more risk averse they are, if you find a way to deliver value-, not like a TikTok experience but close to, I think that you-, that will take you far away. I think being a YouTuber gives me that ability to make sure we can create videos quick and snappy. If I'm doing a video, for example, on I can do that in 30 minutes, 40 minutes, which is pretty fast. Of course, eventually, it's 30 minutes of a-, you know, as a founder doing that rather than somebody else doing it. But this is deliver some more ROI. So much ROI, so yes. I think also it forces you to really think creatively. When you are making a video, people don't want information linearly, they, they want information in a-, in a way that if you have an intro-problem solution the way it works is actually different, you want to say-, depending on the problem dot, dot, dot. And then you go into intro, you're like, oh. And then you go into the solution or if you're teaching something you say, 'This is how you can do something give as a liberal snap.' Whatever solution that is and then you go into the problem and then you finish with an intro. But information actually does not retain on the solution problem-, the intro solution-, the intro problem solution. So we always think about those things.

Yes, I think videos are such a powerful way for you to think about it. I think on a B2B space, not a lot of people are really utilising it. Sometimes you can go into a website and yes, you can see the VP of something, you know, being interviewed and you will-, you will look at it if you want to buy it but do you want to-, do you remember something valuable that you can teach somebody that then you will see outside. And I think that's the best effect, right. If you're going-, if you go to a company's website because you're interested about buying something, are you, not only convinced about buying it, but are you actually somebody that wants to be the ambassador and be, like, 'Oh, really interesting. I saw this thing about yesterday and they can deliver the value product.' Or they can laugh about it or whatever that is right. That is the cool thing about, you know, bringing that video aspect into the B2B world. Look, we haven't done much, I think we're just starting, there's just so many things. It's about time, that's the problem. If we had an amazing space like that maybe we will be doing better but, yes. Also another thing as well is just you're able to just reduce-, when you think about video you don't want to be doing such a long time so in the business we've been doing for Silicon Valley Bank or LinkedIn, whatever, how we cram information two minutes, because people are really busy. Right, so yes. There's a lot of the leaners that we've been thinking about.

Daniel Yubi: People are really busy, right? So, yes, there's a lot of the learning that we've been thinking about.

Charles Brecque: Great, and I remember when I saw your first video, you had that mic, or maybe a very similar mic, and we just knew we had to get it and, and since, yes, we've, sort of, gone down this video rabbit hole of, 'We should get really professional equipment,' not just for the sake of looking cool and-, but, but I think when you can deliver a really professional experience, it, it really provides a great platform to bring on great guests, like yourself, and, and really crystallise key, key lessons, in a format which is not just easy to digest, but in a format which people want to digest. Do you want to look at a fuzzy video?

Daniel Yubi: No, or audio. Many people don't know this, but you would rather watch a 10p 720p video, it's, like, okay quality video, but definitely, you don't want to listen to bad audio. If you've ever been in the Tube or anything, and there's just a moment when the mic just breaks, it's, like, 'Oh, wow.' You, you cannot-, you, you cannot enjoy that, right? So, so, yes, it's really nice that doing this, I'm very excited to be here and very excited about the podcast and I'm very excited to see all the fans that are going to come over here.

Charles Brecque: Yes, well, we've, we've got a, a long list and, obviously, the podcast started as virtual remote, and, and for some founders, we will continue, because, unfortunately, we can't bring the studio to New York or, or whatever, but yes, thank you for coming and, yes, really, really enjoyed having you. I guess, we're, we're, we're nearing the end of the podcast. You know, what's your, your favourite tech product that you can't live without.

Daniel Yubi: Tech product that I cannot live without? That's-, does it need to be, like, tech, tech, or can it be, like, something I have at home? Because, I can give you two examples, because I've-, if I give the example to one, maybe they will be like, 'Oh, God,' but I have another one that's a little better. So, say, I love Superhuman, it's pretty good on making my time more efficient on sending emails. There's another really nice app called Cron, it was acquired by Notion, a, a multi-tasking productivity app. Cron is a calendar, which is amazing. It's like Superhuman, but for a calendar, but that's very cliché. So, I will say that my favourite tech product, even though maybe it's not super techy, is my espresso machine. So, in the-, when the pandemic happened, I love coffee, so I was like, 'Oh my God, how am I going to get my flat white?' I know it sounds really bad, but I wanted that, and I live on that, my productivity equals coffee on me. So, I started learning, over the pandemic, how to do latte art. So, I got a Bambino Plus, it's not a super-fancy machine, it's just a nice machine. Perfect, you can actually dial in the, the, the, like, the coffee, the milk. So, yes, I love it. I make-, this is my ritual, every day, I wake up, I walk my dog, then I put the-, I grind the coffee, steam the milk, and then, yes, I ended up doing my, my, my coffee everyday.

Charles Brecque: Wow, that's really impressive. I mean, I, I, I know a few others who have bought their coffee machines, but never been quite as dedicated as you, I think.

Daniel Yubi: Yes, everyday, that's, literally, what I do. It's, like, five minutes, it's just a moment that I happily just stop and just think and then just do the, the practice on the-, moving the milk, but yes, that would be my favourite.

Charles Brecque: Great, and I can-, I, I love Superhuman as well, but I'm very intrigued by Cron.

Daniel Yubi: Yes, it's C-R-O -O-N -O-N, yes.

Charles Brecque: Yes, I'll have to check it out.

Daniel Yubi: Yes.

Charles Brecque: Well, thanks a lot, Daniel, for bing on the show.

Daniel Yubi: Thank you.

Charles Brecque: And best of luck-,

Daniel Yubi: Thank you, Charles.

Charles Brecque: Growing Payable at superhuman speed.

Daniel Yubi: Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me, it's such a lovely time.

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